Last night Tom fixed (I hope!) the baby swing. Jacob wasn't interested in it last night, but he was also tired at the time. He barely fits in it, he's so chubby! It still needs to be restarted because the swinging just stops sometimes. I'm worried that it will still fall apart because I had visions in my head of the exact scene pictured here. I had enough trouble keeping Leanna and Justin out of it when Timothy was a baby-now with three little monkeys to keep off, well, we'll just say I won't be surprised if it doesn't last long. (Yes I did pull him off right after I took a picture. Many times.)
16 comments:
Did you spank his bottom and say NO? Sometimes a little spank can mean so much. I'm not saying to beat the child, but a little spank and stern yell will stop them in their place.
I know I can hear you both saying we don't hit our kids, but sometimes it is the only thing that works, when you have tried everything else.
Remember Steph, you are the one that needs to keep yourself sane. When the kids are running out of control you need to step in and take control or the cituation.
The things they do just amazes me!
There is just so much I could say, the mind boggles.
Neither one of us has ever said that. Both of us have resorted to spanking. I have not found it to work any better than any other meothod of discipline. I have never completely discussed my feelings on spanking with anyone-not my parents, not my sister, not even Tom. He's not around long enough to have a discussion about parenting philosophies even if he was so inclined. So there is no one, aside from myself, who is qualified to discuss my beliefs on the subject. Ask me in person and I'll chat.
Yes, they are amazing, aren't they?
Steph, I didn't mean to upset you by my post, but I remember what Tom said to me many years ago when Leanna was born.
Steph, my son said to me when Leanna was little and into touching everything. It was in our house that he said this, we don't believe in hitting our kids. Cuz Leanna was going after something on the end table by Chuck's chair where Tom was sitting and he kept yelling at her. I said smack her hand and say NO and she should stop. It may take a few times until she understands what it means. And that's when he said it. I told him a little spank wouldn't hurt her, just her feelings.
Of course that was before you had boys to really drive you crazy, LOL.
I don't mean to add drama to this post, but I feel I must add my two cents. Dicipline is not about hurting the child, be it physically or emotionally, because that accomplishes nothing. NOTHING. It is about correcting behavior. Research has shown that time-outs, removal of priviledges, and natural consequences are more effective then spanking/hitting a child and they produce none of the harmful effects that spanking has been shown to. Knowingly and Intentionally hurting a child, whether it is physically or emotionally, is called ABUSE and it is NEVER ok. Even if it is in the name of dicipline.
Laura, I agree with you, but when time-outs and other discipline measures don't work, then a little smack on the hand, may work.
You didn't raise a child like my handsome Tom, cuz then you would understand what I'm trying to say.
We tried putting him in corners with his hands behind his back, that his Nanny would cry when she saw that, but it seemed to work for a bit. Then that stopped working.
When I took a course in "Parent Effective Training" at their school, when they were in first grade. That's when I learned about tough love. I didn't agree with most, but taking things away and removing things from their room until they learned how to earn them back, worked for me and them to a point.
We tried everything with him from taking privileges away to removing each piece of furniture from their room they shared to only having a bed left in their room. He was my most trying child and the most mischievous child I ever encounter.
You tell me how you would handle a child that would sit there and tell you NO after No. I'll give you an example: when Tom was a toddler and we were down his Grammy's house in Raubsville he was eating a banana and threw the peel on the floor. Chuck asked him and asked him to pick it up and throw it away. He kept saying NO I DON'T WANT TO. We tried everything, to the result to spanking his bottom. When in turn he would turn to him and say, IT DIDN'T HURT! This kept going back and forth until his diaper was falling off. It finally resulted in his Nanny picking the peel up and throwing it away herself, because he was that defiant.
What would you do?
Hitting a child on the hand or bottom to discipline him/her isn't child abuse. Hitting them to cause bruises or lacerations, then YES, that is child abuse. Some people do take things to extreme when they are disciplining them, but a little smack won't hurt them.
I believe in that song that is out right now on the radio, DIFFERENT WORLD, by Bucky Covington. Did you ever hear it. If you ever do listen to the words to that song.
It was hard trying to raise 2 kids back then, let alone raising 4 kids and keeping yourself sane at the same time.
i tend to feel like every child and every situation is different. i've spanked jonathan but i didn't like the way it made ME feel. and since jonathan reacts the same way to a spank as a time out, i've opted for the time out. and by seeing him react the same way to each one, i'm not convinced spanking causes long term issues as some studies suggest. some days i wonder if the current lack of respect in our youth is a product of kids now being able to sue their own parents for spanking them.
anyways, not trying to start any drama, just my two cents...
Ok, I'm going to add my 2 cents worth also:
I agree--spanking is not bad, neither is it the best way to discipline. When I was a child, we were spanked. When it was my mother spanking me, I always knew what the spanking was for. I did the same with my children so they would always know why they were being spanked. And afterwards always held them and let them know I loved them very much. It worked well for Steph but Laura was a diff story. I have to write about Laura cause Steph & her still remember times when Laura would laugh and say the spanking didn't hurt or she'd be angry with me because I did hurt her. No matter how many times I explained that her spanking was the result of her own actions. I did the best I could at the time and continued to discipline her the same way but by the time Claire was born, I was not as eager to spank and she was spanked the least.
My point is--if you are going to spank, make sure they understand why and afterwards, do the follow up. Standing in corners is not real effective either for some children and I think loses it's edge after a certain age. I certainly remember being sent to the corner and not minding it in the least--it was better than being spanked lol. So really, you have to be creative when you discipline--it doesn't matter how you get the point across (unless it is abusive) to the child that certain actions are not tolerated, as long as they DO get the point.
Alanna, thank you for your post. When I would spank my kids I would always feel bad but, until I remember how bad they were, LOL.
Now, Chuck on the other hand was just like what you said in your post. He would always hug them after he spanked them and tell them he loved them and that their behavior is what caused him to spank them. I would say to him OK, now that you tell them you love them do you think that they understand the spanking of the bad behavior. He would always say to me he didn't know, but he wanted to make sure that they knew he loved them even though he was upset with them. I always thought that was a good thing from him, cause he wasn't always around when they were young, between working and playing in the band.
WOW! I guess we all had a kid that was a little more defiant than the other, or others.
I could never say that Laura was defiant--no way! She was sweet as pie. She just didn't like me spanking her.
And making sure they understood afterward that you loved them only makes sense to me. It doesn't take back from the discipline, but it does make sure they KNOW you love them--something that is very important. One thing I have to say for Steph as a mother--her children do know they are loved. And that's wonderful.
Let me explain a few things: First, "I told him a little spank wouldn't hurt her, just her feelings." is the phrase that triggered my comment. You implied that you were intentionally using a form of dicipline that you knew would hurt her emotionally. And YES that IS abuse,not dicipline. The key is that is it intentional. Secondly, yes when I was a child, we did not know that spanking could cause psychological harm. SO, I am in no way implying that any of you abuse your children. Fast Forward to 2008, when we KNOW that 1) spanking is psychologically harmful and 2)there are other and, quite frankly, better ways to dicipline your children. When you spank you are sending the message that ok little Jimmie, hitting and hurting others is bad. Unless you're mad at the person- then it's ok to abandon your values and morals. Is this really what you want to teach your children? Third, No I did not raise Tom. And yes, I'm sure that he was a frustrating little bugger. However, and please all of you read this next one several times, I spend, between work and my internship, well over 40 hours a week ( and yes I know that parenhood is 24/7) working with, reforming, and otherwise changing children who, quite honestly, are holy terrors. So no, I did not raise Tom, but I have spent countless hours over the past 5 1/2 years modeling and teaching effective parenting and discipline for their parents. So I am not making these comments out of naivety,I know. And if I had EVER used a physical punishment, I would have found myself in the unemployment line faster then you can say "spanking"!
LOL Laura-Tom is still a "frustrating little bugger!"
Also, I had to respond to this, and let me make clear that I am in NO WAY personaly attacking the commentor, BUT....."some days i wonder if the current lack of respect in our youth is a product of kids now being able to sue their own parents for spanking them."
Surely you are kidding! Lack of respect in our youth is something that previous generations have been complaining about since the beginning of time. Standards of behavior do change, as do people's recollections of how polite and well behaved they-or their own children-were. Leaving aside those factors, sliding morals-including respect for the elderly-would be cause by multiple factors. How many two year olds, for example since this post was about Timothy, are aware that they would have legal rights against parents who phyisically discipline? The kind of child who is aware of that info and would be willing to use it as leverage has issues already, regardless of whether or not their parents use any type of physical punishment. I would guess that child wasn't disciplined-MEANING GUIDED, AND TAUGHT CORRECT BEHAVIOR-at all.
once when i was at walmart, i witnessed a mother disciplining her child by smacking her hands. she had to be about 5 or 6. the smack came after several attempts at correcting her behavior in other ways. then, a man who had just happened upon the situation told the mother that he was going to call the cops on her for abusing her child. the child was very interested in what this man was saying and this whole scene has stuck in my mind for a very long time. i imagined what it would be like for this mother next time she disciplines that child and how quickly she would threaten her own mother with calling the cops. and, maybe even calling them at some point and saying she was being abused. child services would get involved and who knows what would come of it. personally, i think it is an incredible problem in this current day and age that children have that much control over the situation. and quite honestly, that same man would have probably had an issue with the mother if she wasn't disciplining her!! we've all heard the comments, "i can't believe she lets her kids act that way!" i think people should just get out of the way and let parenting to the parents.
but, thats just my opinion.
I'm enjoying this discussion and the exchange of opinions. I truly hope I don't offend anyone.
I still have trouble believing that most kids are threatening their parents to call the authorites. I will agree fear of authorites interfearing does color the way children are parented today though. I think parents do have to worry more about prosecution for things that wouldn't have even been a concern in years past. For example the recent story about the woman who let a sleeping 2 year old stay in the car while she took two older kids to donate money in a salvation army thing 20 or 30 feet away. It was december, so no chance of overheating, she wasn't going into the store and she could see the child and car,and the car was locked. A police officer spotted the car with a child alone and charged her with abuse. There's more to that story, but my point is just that to a much greater degree than ever before, parents must second guess their choices because of fear of what other people might think. Like Jamie said, people will complain if you don't publicly discipline your child yet if you yell at them (or whatever) you might also get dirty looks or threats. No matter what, someone will say you are doing it wrong!
Laura, do you know anything about this? If the CPS investigated someone accused of abuse because they spanked their child-and no other signs of abuse are found, the parents merely believe in spanking as a system of discipline-what would be done?
I read about that woman who was arrested because she left her child in the car to give money to the salvation army. But you say there is more to the story Steph? What more? I didn't read anything more so I am curious.
It is scary how we have lost our right to raise our child the way we see fit without the government getting involved. Now in California it is illegal to homeschool. It amazes me that we have lost so much. I keep on wanting to believe that these conspiracy theory ppl are wrong...but more & more it seems they are right.
there's more because the girls she had taken to the Salvation Army kettle were left alone in the parking lot and later found huddled on a bench inside Wal-Mart, too terrified by the police officers to ask for help.
A far far greater case a of child-endangerment than the protected sleeping child in the car. The girls were too scared to do anything or ask for help.
The woman's husband had advised her to say nothing, so the police said she was refusing to cooperate. They wouldn't let her wait until her husband arrived to talk. I get that they don't have forever to sit around and wait, but this case was clearly not a typical child endangerment case and this woman wasn't a career criminal. I think she irritated the police and then they were trying to cover their butts.
They ended up not charging her only because they said the law itself was too vague so they wouldn't be able to prove it.
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